I don't know what to tell you. I've been struggling with the short row heel/toe thing for a while. I love the simplicity of it and using it to start a sock toe up just out and out rocks but, I have issues with the whole hole thing. I'll play with my sherbert sock tonight and see if I can come up with something.

I'm a top down, heel flap, pointed or star toe knitter. Anything else makes me crazy. Short row heels do take some practice.

The wrapped versus yo issue - people like different things. I tried the yo way, and it didn't work for me, while the wrapped way really, truly does. So it's a simple decision. As for size - length, number of sts left between yos, etc. - I'm sending you an e-mail right now.

My short rows are ugly too. Heel flaps work well for me. I'm currently working on a sock using the after-thought heel. I hope it works out because I love working socks toe up, that way you can use all the yarn up.

I must be more tired then I thought, because I can't make heads or toes out of what the problem might be, or is that heels and toes. ACtually I'm not great short rows anyway, but I bet you'll get lots of great answers from others.

I do like how the socks look at least, very basic, good man socks.

I prefer wrapped short rows myself. I've tried the YO method and I thought they weren't as tight.

As for how many stitches to leave, that's really dependent upon the recipient. For me, I've found that leaving one inch of stitches unworked is perfect. I don't have narrow feet, but I find this works well because it makes for a deeper heel. It does make the short rows wrap ever-so-slightly under my heel though. I don't feel it at all when wearing them though. So, I guess I'd say get the recipient to try on the sock if possible.

I've never done the yo short row since I am very happy with wrapped short rows. I am also struggling with the numbers involved in the heel ... so I am happy to read all the other comments on this post. Thanks for sharing.

Ergh, those holes would annoy the heck out of me. But I'm not an experienced-enough knitter to know how to fix them. I avoid short-rows like the plague. Good luck!

Wish I could help you! I haven't completed a pair of socks I've been happy with yet. (And I've never even tried a short row heel). I hope you figure out the trick of it though!

I have two words for you: Nancy Bush.

Hi Stephanie
I've been using a non-wrap, non-yo short row for my most recent pair of socks. It's named for the unventor's late father. It's here:

http://www.knitlist.com/2002/ToeUpSock.htm

It works nicely for me. I still do my regular toe though. A chart for using different cast on numbers in this short row method is here:

http://hipknitism.com/classes/basic_ribbed_socks/heel_numbers.shtml

Hope this might help.

~~Midj~~

I tried the YO short row heel once, and promptly went back to wraps. I found the YO method too fiddly, and not as neat. As for the size, I generally leave 40% of the stitches unwrapped on the heel. This works for my own socks, but I've only knit heel flap socks for my husband, so I don't quite know if that would work for you. I just used trial and error to figure out how many wraps to do on the heel.

For my bf's sock I cast on 72stitches and did 11 wraps on each side leaving 10 unworked stitches in the middle. They seem to fit fine. I for the life of me can't figure out yo short rows and will figure it out one of these days just to try it.

Ack! Bummer. I will be no help to you, but can commiserate.

You know, I do the wrapped short row heel, and I never vary. I know that's quite inflexible of me, but it just works. So unless I read a pattern and it looks like a FUN heel, I just do my own.......
Sorry, I know that is absolutely NO help whatsoever.

maaaybe instead of ripping back the sock, you could sew up the holes in the heel with another length of yarn? I usually do the wrapped short row heel, so am not any help with the YO version :-)

Go with the placket heel. It fits better. That's my suggestion.

Glad you find you are liking the two circ method.

I've tried 'em all and I have never found anything that works as well as the wrapped short row directions (as explained by Wendy in knitty). The more you do it, the better it looks. Toe up and short row heel and toe are my mainstays. All those other types of short rows leave me frustrated and disappointed (as I see that you are, with good reason). I hope it works out because that sock is really nice otherwise. My DH would love it.

Yeah, I have a wide heel, too so I usually do 1/3 on each side and 1/3 in the middle, it may need 1/4 on each side and 1/2 in the middle for your guy tho?

I like the wrapped way, esp the one that pulls the stitch below the wrapped one up and knits 3 together instead of just the two, it really closes the holes. =)

I wish I could make an informed comment on the short row heels and toe. I've only ever done short row heels and they seem to work fine for me.

I'm catching up on some of your posts - Ombre is just beautiful. Beautiful. You must love your mother very much because after knitting something like that I would keep it for myself! And the fair isle swatch is cool - love those colors.

Hi Steph, I don't have any advice to offer, but the socks look wonderful aside from the holes. Hopefully you can figure out a relatively painless way to fix them.

Hi there, Someone already mentionned the HipKnitsm website (http://hipknitism.com), and I can only do that again. I tried short row heels/toes before but it never worked, till I tried this one. It has really good instructions on everything needed to make a nice heel/toe with short rows, you should check it out! I have no holes whatsoever.

Hope you find a way you like!

I'm with Margene. I tried short rows (I've made a whole sweater out of them!) and I just don't like it for socks. The best part about socks is that you find what you like and you can adapt any pattern to fit that. Just like the whole two circular/dpn thing. It's all good and then you find what's BEST for you!